quote:

Originally posted by jalamb:
Don't bother, Mountain Tider. There might be 2 or 3 people on here that have actually researched his positions, other than what they hear on the news or from bloggers.

They frequently get his position entirely wrong, because they're positive that all his positions fall in line with their stereotypical view of Democrats.

You're right, there are people on here who have researched his opinions AND voting records, Based on those alone I will not be voting on him. It should tell you something that while he admits in his own words that the surge in Iraq is working, He still says that he would again vote against the surge. WHAT? You would still vote against something that by all accounts is working? HELLO???? I'm not a huge McCain fan either. I dont agree with many of the votes he has cast and bills he has sponsored. See teh illegal immigration bill as an example. But if you want to break it down to one simple position that would turn me away from Barack Hussein Obama, it's his postition on abortion. We simply disagree on that stance and I feel that if I were to vote for him, I would then be condoning it. Some of you will think I'm being over dramatical about it but it is my conviction and I simply cant do it.

Almost every item on that list leads to a bigger government which I oppose. Some of them aren't even real issues. Saying things like "I support senior citizens" is useless because it means nothing. Here's a list of his items that I oppose:

1. Increase Transparency - The American citizen doesn't need to know every aspect of his government. They don't need to know how ever dollar is spent. We have a republic, where we elect representatives we trust to run things, and those representatives deal with that information. Having to open all of that up to every American citizen is expensive, time consuming, and pointless.

2. Universal Coverage - Unless he is going to greatly increase both the private and public infrastructure for the healthcare system, you can't have affordable and quality health care for every American. Who's going to pay for that?

3. Reduce Health Care Costs - Once again, you are going to flood the market with demand by making healthcare available to all Americans, but cut costs as well?

4. Taxes - All these great refroms and expansion of government services, and we are going to cut government revenue? Why do I not believe that.

5. Technology - So a more modern (read: more expensive) communication infrastructure will make universal health care affordable, solve the energy "crisis," create new jobs, and grow the economy. That's all it takes, better communication? How in the world is communication going to solve the energy crisis? Am I going to be able to talk to my gas tank and make my car run?

6. Credit Cards - Why do we need a five star rating system? If the consumer can't understand the contract they are signing, THEY SHOULDN'T SIGN IT! Why do we protect peoples ability to be stupid?

7. Work-Family - Double the funding! Anybody see a theme here? Government has no right telling private businesses that they should have flexible work schedules.

8. Committment - This is not even a policy item. How will he honor their lifetime of work, what is he talking about?

9. Protect Social Security - Social security needs to be done away with. It is a poorly run program and people would be better able to provide for their own retirement if they could invest the money themselves instead of handing it over to an incompetent government agency.

10. Help Americans Save More - It's not helping Americans, its forcing Americans to save more. If I pay my taxes, the government has no right to tell me what to do with the rest of my money.

11. High-Quality Zero to Five Education - Kids need to be at home with either their parents or other family members, not in some government funded preschool.

12. Refrom No Child Left Behind - Still more funding promises. Remember, so far we've cut taxes and increased spending in at least ten areas.

13. Make CC and College Ed Affordable - Yet more money handed out by the government. We want to improve our school systems yet remove the incentive to do well and earn scholarships to pay for college? And what's to keep college expenses from spiraling out of control if they have a government blank check since they are footing the bill? College education isn't a right guaranteed by the Constitution and we shouldn't treat it like one.

14. Tackle Climate Change - Which top scientists? The ones that think we are in a climate crisis or the ones that don't?

15. Create Millions of Green Jobs - $15B a year for 10 years to clean up all of our manufacturing? Where's the money coming from exactly?

16. Reduce Dependence on Foreign Oil - Instead of actively pursuing ways to get more oil, we are going to cut consumption by 35%? Which is easier and more feasible? And what are we going to give up to cut consumption by 35%? Are we going to invest in nuclear power, because that seems to be the only alternative that can support that much of a cut.

17. Cut Down on Tax Haven and Tax Shelter - Instead of trying to keep people who use loopholes in our current tax system, why don't we optimize the tax code.

18. Family Farms - Government should not intefere in the private sector, and that is all Obama is doing here. It's not the government's job to determine a "fair price." That's the free market's job.

I could keep going but I'm tired. Obama is pandering in most of these items and all I see is government expansion. I don't want the government any more involved in my life than it already is, so I won't be voting for Obama come November.

I understand you on most of those Ops, but I must disagree on the government transparency issue. That is top of the list for me.

The federal government has shown time and time again that it cannot be completely trusted. The Freedom of Information Act has allowed the American public to uncover corruption, unfair hiring/promoting practices, and other things of the like.

The more transparent a government is to its citizens, the less room they have to screw us over.

quote:

Originally posted by jalamb:
I understand you on most of those Ops, but I must disagree on the government transparency issue. That is top of the list for me.

The federal government has shown time and time again that it cannot be completely trusted. The Freedom of Information Act has allowed the American public to uncover corruption, unfair hiring/promoting practices, and other things of the like.

The more transparent a government is to its citizens, the less room they have to screw us over.

It's a balance thing. I'm not against transparency, it just worries me he might start extending transparency to things that don't need it.

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Tider:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JumboPackage:
wana explain how he plans to accomplish each of those goals? he plans to do all these great things, how does he plan to accomplish these goals? lets hear it?

[QUOTE]


You asked what he was going to change and how he was going to do it. If you read his policies and his position paper that I provided the link to, you would have your answer. I didn't say he was going to be successful in getting everything done. No candidate is ever successful getting all of his campaign initiatives done. Get a grip. All you are trying to do is start an argument. I already gave you the highlights. If you aren't capable of actually reading the details, that is a you problem. You wanted an answer; I gave you an answer. Apparently you didn't expect an answer and aren't prepared to handle it.

You asked what he planned to change and how he planned to do it. I gave you 57 examples and that still isn't good enough for you? I realize you would never vote for him, and that is your perogative. But don't act like I didn't answer your question.

NO, you gave a list of GOALS, there is no PLAN of how to ACCOMPLISH those GOALS. I can come up with a big list of GOALS, but it USELESS if I have NO PLAN TO REACH THEM! Obama is full of sh*t just like the rest of you demos and other politicians!

quote:

Originally posted by ufounddave:

quote:

Originally posted by jalamb:
Don't bother, Mountain Tider. There might be 2 or 3 people on here that have actually researched his positions, other than what they hear on the news or from bloggers.

They frequently get his position entirely wrong, because they're positive that all his positions fall in line with their stereotypical view of Democrats.

You're right, there are people on here who have researched his opinions AND voting records, Based on those alone I will not be voting on him. It should tell you something that while he admits in his own words that the surge in Iraq is working, He still says that he would again vote against the surge. WHAT? You would still vote against something that by all accounts is working? HELLO???? I'm not a huge McCain fan either. I dont agree with many of the votes he has cast and bills he has sponsored. See teh illegal immigration bill as an example. But if you want to break it down to one simple position that would turn me away from Barack Hussein Obama, it's his postition on abortion. We simply disagree on that stance and I feel that if I were to vote for him, I would then be condoning it. Some of you will think I'm being over dramatical about it but it is my conviction and I simply cant do it.

I respect that. My only thing on abortion is that regardless of who is elected president, it's not going to change any time soon. I'm more concerned about bigger issues in this country. But the bottom line is that I respect your position and conviction on this.

quote:

Originally posted by BamainGatorland:

quote:

Originally posted by JumboPackage:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JumboPackage:
wana explain how he plans to accomplish each of those goals? he plans to do all these great things, how does he plan to accomplish these goals? lets hear it?

well????

You're so transparent, it's hilarious. Pretty much like the Couric interview of Obama, where he answers the question 5 times, yet she keeps asking the same question as if he's not saying anything. Your question was answered, your bluff was called, but now you want to know "how" it's going to happen. How is McCain going to do anything he says? Huh? Just say you don't support Obama and be done with it. Continuing down the "I want more specifics" path is just plain laughable.

I'll tell you what is hillarious, its that you idiots that are so BLINDLY following this fool politician have NO CLUE what he is going to do or how he is supposedly goign to do it because there is no TRUE PLAN to accomplish these BS goals he has!

Jim?

quote:

Originally posted by JumboPackage:

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Tider:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JumboPackage:
wana explain how he plans to accomplish each of those goals? he plans to do all these great things, how does he plan to accomplish these goals? lets hear it?

[QUOTE]


You asked what he was going to change and how he was going to do it. If you read his policies and his position paper that I provided the link to, you would have your answer. I didn't say he was going to be successful in getting everything done. No candidate is ever successful getting all of his campaign initiatives done. Get a grip. All you are trying to do is start an argument. I already gave you the highlights. If you aren't capable of actually reading the details, that is a you problem. You wanted an answer; I gave you an answer. Apparently you didn't expect an answer and aren't prepared to handle it.

You asked what he planned to change and how he planned to do it. I gave you 57 examples and that still isn't good enough for you? I realize you would never vote for him, and that is your perogative. But don't act like I didn't answer your question.

NO, you gave a list of GOALS, there is no PLAN of how to ACCOMPLISH those GOALS. I can come up with a big list of GOALS, but it USELESS if I have NO PLAN TO REACH THEM! Obama is full of sh*t just like the rest of you demos and other politicians!

Pal, I gave you the link to the plan and how to accomplish those goals. I'm not going to post all 64 pages and I obviously can't make you read it. If anyone is full of it, it is you for continuing to argue a point after your question was answered. If you are too lazy to actually read then, again, that is a you problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Tider:

quote:

Originally posted by JumboPackage:

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Tider:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JumboPackage:
wana explain how he plans to accomplish each of those goals? he plans to do all these great things, how does he plan to accomplish these goals? lets hear it?

[QUOTE]


You asked what he was going to change and how he was going to do it. If you read his policies and his position paper that I provided the link to, you would have your answer. I didn't say he was going to be successful in getting everything done. No candidate is ever successful getting all of his campaign initiatives done. Get a grip. All you are trying to do is start an argument. I already gave you the highlights. If you aren't capable of actually reading the details, that is a you problem. You wanted an answer; I gave you an answer. Apparently you didn't expect an answer and aren't prepared to handle it.

You asked what he planned to change and how he planned to do it. I gave you 57 examples and that still isn't good enough for you? I realize you would never vote for him, and that is your perogative. But don't act like I didn't answer your question.

NO, you gave a list of GOALS, there is no PLAN of how to ACCOMPLISH those GOALS. I can come up with a big list of GOALS, but it USELESS if I have NO PLAN TO REACH THEM! Obama is full of sh*t just like the rest of you demos and other politicians!

Pal, I gave you the link to the plan and how to accomplish those goals. I'm not going to post all 64 pages and I obviously can't make you read it. If anyone is full of it, it is you for continuing to argue a point after your question was answered. If you are too lazy to actually read then, again, that is a you problem.

you still don't get it. as a big supporter of him, I expect you would know this stuff.

He can't know this stuff because his candidate doesn't know it. He says whatever it takes to get votes and keep the far left happy(george soros).
He is right about the candidate of change,he changes his policies everyday.

quote:

Originally posted by JumboPackage:

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Tider:

quote:

Originally posted by JumboPackage:

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Tider:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JumboPackage:
wana explain how he plans to accomplish each of those goals? he plans to do all these great things, how does he plan to accomplish these goals? lets hear it?

[QUOTE]


You asked what he was going to change and how he was going to do it. If you read his policies and his position paper that I provided the link to, you would have your answer. I didn't say he was going to be successful in getting everything done. No candidate is ever successful getting all of his campaign initiatives done. Get a grip. All you are trying to do is start an argument. I already gave you the highlights. If you aren't capable of actually reading the details, that is a you problem. You wanted an answer; I gave you an answer. Apparently you didn't expect an answer and aren't prepared to handle it.

You asked what he planned to change and how he planned to do it. I gave you 57 examples and that still isn't good enough for you? I realize you would never vote for him, and that is your perogative. But don't act like I didn't answer your question.

NO, you gave a list of GOALS, there is no PLAN of how to ACCOMPLISH those GOALS. I can come up with a big list of GOALS, but it USELESS if I have NO PLAN TO REACH THEM! Obama is full of sh*t just like the rest of you demos and other politicians!

Pal, I gave you the link to the plan and how to accomplish those goals. I'm not going to post all 64 pages and I obviously can't make you read it. If anyone is full of it, it is you for continuing to argue a point after your question was answered. If you are too lazy to actually read then, again, that is a you problem.

you still don't get it. as a big supporter of him, I expect you would know this stuff.

I do get it, I do know this stuff, I spoon fed you this stuff and you still can't comprehend. Or you at least refuse to comprehend. Regardless, arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall, so I'm done. Have a great night, peace be with you and Roll Tide.

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Tider:

quote:

Originally posted by ufounddave:

quote:

Originally posted by jalamb:
Don't bother, Mountain Tider. There might be 2 or 3 people on here that have actually researched his positions, other than what they hear on the news or from bloggers.

They frequently get his position entirely wrong, because they're positive that all his positions fall in line with their stereotypical view of Democrats.

You're right, there are people on here who have researched his opinions AND voting records, Based on those alone I will not be voting on him. It should tell you something that while he admits in his own words that the surge in Iraq is working, He still says that he would again vote against the surge. WHAT? You would still vote against something that by all accounts is working? HELLO???? I'm not a huge McCain fan either. I dont agree with many of the votes he has cast and bills he has sponsored. See teh illegal immigration bill as an example. But if you want to break it down to one simple position that would turn me away from Barack Hussein Obama, it's his postition on abortion. We simply disagree on that stance and I feel that if I were to vote for him, I would then be condoning it. Some of you will think I'm being over dramatical about it but it is my conviction and I simply cant do it.

I respect that. My only thing on abortion is that regardless of who is elected president, it's not going to change any time soon. I'm more concerned about bigger issues in this country. But the bottom line is that I respect your position and conviction on this.

You are correct in that it's not likey to change in the manner I would like to see it change. What worries me is that he allow it to go even beyond where we are now. His votes while in Illinois on late term abortions are very disturbuing to s