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quote:
Originally posted by capstone33:
Unborn babies don't go anywhere... because they're unborn. JMO.


JMHO here,
Did God know us from the womb?

Dr. Hayford has a balanced view against abortion, but has a loving heart for those that have suffered this trauma. A couple of scriptures that make mention of God’s care and purpose of a child even in the womb are:
Isaiah 49:1 -- "…The Lord has called Me from the womb…"

Jeremiah 1:5 – "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you…"

Dr.


I always thought the knuckleball was the easiest pitch to catch. Wait'll it stops rolling, then go to the backstop and pick it up." ― broadcaster and former catcher Bob Uecker
 
Posts: 4636 | Location: Orange Tx. . | Registered: July 22, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
<gottfriedSucks>
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JumboPackage:
the babies will be there, the better question is, will the momma that murdered them be there? unless she receives Gods grace through Christ, she aint gona be there herself and the answer is no.



EXACTLY! excellent point.
 
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Red-shirt Freshman
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Babies have to go somewhere. You are a reformed theologian, so that is an issue you need to hold a belief about. Can you find Scripture that says babies are not human, or that they go to hell based on not being able to accept Christ? As for Jacob and Esau, read the OT account in it's context (Genesis 25:12-34; 27:30-40; Malachi 1). God did love Jacob and hated Esau because of the actions He knew they would take. Esau despised his birthright and everything about the God of his fathers. He openly rejected God and fathered many pagan nations that were also God-haters, whereas Jacob (far from perfect to say the least) came to a point of conversion. A sovereign, omniscient God would know all these things would occur before the foundation of the world. As for David's infant son, David certainly trusted that the child was in heaven(2 Samuel 12:20-23)and knew he would go to his son one day. Either way, everyone who enters heaven has been fitted for heaven by God's grace and mercy. Babies certainly can be fitted for heaven based on that same mercy and grace regardless of their ability to make a distinction about their soul's condition. Either way, you have to decide for yourself. Either all babies go to heaven or only the "elect" ones go. Or maybe, it is that God's omniscience once again allows Him to know what choice the individual would have made had he lived. Romans 5 deals with this.



Why do you think I'm a reformed theologian?

I've read the OT account, however as Paul explains God made his decision before either had done anything, so I don't see how you can claim this was based on foreknowledge of God. If God did make his decision on Esau based on foreknowledge then he could do the same with unborn infants, but I don't see scripture that points to this anywhere. This is just another man made line of thinking that helps a person feel good, kind of trying to make God think like we would.

As far as David is concerned I don't see that 2 Samuel is evidence that David believed his son was in heaven, given the context I would say David was referring to his son not coming back from the dead but David dying one day.

I have reconciled this question for me by saying God is just. In the end the only real scripture that covers the subject is the book of life, if the name is not listed the child doesn't enter heaven.


____________________________________________________________
"...I've got two daughters. 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby." -- Barack Obama
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Posts: 659 | Location: Everywhere | Registered: May 12, 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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To find an answer to this difficult question, one must consider all that the death of Christ accomplished. Why did Jesus die and what did it do?


Master of the art of Rex Kwon Do - "Break the wrist and walk away"
 
Posts: 2099 | Registered: November 29, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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