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Originally posted by The Saltire:

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because the young baby hasn't had a chance be tarnished by sin yet. don't have a bible near by, but pretty sure there are scriptures that support that young children who don't have the understanding of the meaning of "a relationship/salvation/being saved etc" are not going to hell.

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That is what I asked, what scripture are you basing this on? I know of none. If you are referring to the age of accountability that is not scriptural, it is an old Baptist way of thinking, I believe scripture is clear that all mankind has a sin nature inherent since the fall of Adam.

Again, I’m not saying babies go to hell, I don’t believe God would do that, I just can’t find scripture to back it. The only thing that even addresses it is the account of David and Bathsheba’s child. But you wouldn’t think God would cause a child to die as He did in that account. It is pretty confusing.

Babies have to go somewhere. You are a reformed theologian, so that is an issue you need to hold a belief about. Can you find Scripture that says babies are not human, or that they go to hell based on not being able to accept Christ? As for Jacob and Esau, read the OT account in it's context (Genesis 25:12-34; 27:30-40; Malachi 1). God did love Jacob and hated Esau because of the actions He knew they would take. Esau despised his birthright and everything about the God of his fathers. He openly rejected God and fathered many pagan nations that were also God-haters, whereas Jacob (far from perfect to say the least) came to a point of conversion. A sovereign, omniscient God would know all these things would occur before the foundation of the world. As for David's infant son, David certainly trusted that the child was in heaven(2 Samuel 12:20-23)and knew he would go to his son one day. Either way, everyone who enters heaven has been fitted for heaven by God's grace and mercy. Babies certainly can be fitted for heaven based on that same mercy and grace regardless of their ability to make a distinction about their soul's condition. Either way, you have to decide for yourself. Either all babies go to heaven or only the "elect" ones go. Or maybe, it is that God's omniscience once again allows Him to know what choice the individual would have made had he lived. Romans 5 deals with this.

Psalm 14:1

My question is how does a woman reconcile this? She either has to believe in her heart that there is no life so the abortions are ok or...that she killed her babies and they will meet in heaven. Is this not some strange logic?

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Originally posted by BamaTusks:
My question is how does a woman reconcile this? She either has to believe in her heart that there is no life so the abortions are ok or...that she killed her babies and they will meet in heaven. Is this not some strange logic?

She reconciles it by not commiting the abortion in the first place.

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Originally posted by BamaTusks:
My question is how does a woman reconcile this? She either has to believe in her heart that there is no life so the abortions are ok or...that she killed her babies and they will meet in heaven. Is this not some strange logic?

She can't reconcile it or justify it. She can only repent and be forgiven by the finished work of Jesus Christ on Calvary's cross. However, she is probably experiencing what most (if not all) women go through after having an abortion: overwhelming guilt and regret.

Psalm 14:1

Here are just a few verses:

1 John 2:12 "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake."

Mark 10:14 "But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God."

Matthew 18:10 "Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father which is in heaven."

Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "Babies go to Heaven". The Bible doesn't work that way (though sometimes It is explicit like that). There is plenty of info about this on the internet.

Unborn babies don't go anywhere... because they're unborn. JMO.

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Originally posted by capstone33:
Unborn babies don't go anywhere... because they're unborn. JMO.

Then why does the woman have the need to comfort herself by saying she will meet her babies in heaven?

Sounds like Capstone subscribes to the idea that babies aren't considered a living person until they exit the womb. I don't agree with it, but if that was the case then the woman would be mistaken. She wouldn't meet her babies and the comfort is just a way to deal with her guilt, which she should never feel because the babies were never living beings in the first place.

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Originally posted by capstone33:
Unborn babies don't go anywhere... because they're unborn. JMO.

A few verses that say otherwise:

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." NAS

Psalm 139:13-16 " For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.
14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Your works, and my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them." NAS

Isaiah 49:1b "The LORD called me from the womb; from the body of my mother He named me." NAS

Luke 1:41 "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

Not trying to single you out, but there are many verses in the Bible that state God's plans and purpose for unborn babies, and His divine creation of them. It states in a couple of different places in the Bible about how precious children are to God.

There is a song that was recorded by an old Southern Gospel band called "Gold City" - anybody remember them? They had a song about abortion called "Only God knows" that would bring me to tears everytime I heard it. Here are the lyrics:

She'll never see the beauty of a sunrise,
Nor pick a flower blowin' in the wind.
She will never climb up to sit on daddy's knee
Never spend a summer day with her best friend.
She'll never bake cookies with mommy
Never know what it's like to be sixteen
Never share her love with that special someone
Never have the family of her childhood dreams.

He'll never celebrate his first birthday
You'll never hear him call your name out loud
He will never run across a grassy meadow
Nor will he be the little boy that makes you proud
He will never go fishin' with daddy
Nor have the joy of buying his first car
He will never get to have his own family
Nor hear his little boy wish upon a star

Day by day and one by one we're killing our future
By the thousands every day across our land
Can you tell what has happened to America?
Is there anyone who dares to make a stand?
We have the blood of little children on our hands.
Only God knows just what they could have been.

But in heaven God is picking up the pieces
Of the countless treasures we have thrown away
While slowly reshaping and remolding
Those precious little helpless lumps of clay
So lovingly he holds them in his hand
Only God knows just what they could have been.

I was trying to find an audio clip of the song, but it's so old, I'm having trouble.

Note: I did find a short clip of it on this website: http://www.brianfreeandassurance.com/disco-greater.shtml. Apparently one of the members of Gold City started his own band and has the song out on an album. Under "Track Listing", the song is #12, and you can listen to an audio clip of it. For those who care.

Just for future reference, it's pretty dangerous to post a single Bible verse without the context. That method is what people have used to attempt to show contradictions in the Holy Bible.
The "age of accountability" is not mentioned in the Bible, and it is dangerous to preach this as truth. REMEMBER what Revelation says about adding words to the Bible. Some believe that aborted babies go to a place called "Abraham's Bosom" but that's for a whole 'nother discussion. Nobody knows but the Lord Himself.

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Originally posted by RC Clark:
Just for future reference, it's pretty dangerous to post a single Bible verse without the context. That method is what people have used to attempt to show contradictions in the Holy Bible.
The "age of accountability" is not mentioned in the Bible, and it is dangerous to preach this as truth. REMEMBER what Revelation says about adding words to the Bible. Some believe that aborted babies go to a place called "Abraham's Bosom" but that's for a whole 'nother discussion. Nobody knows but the Lord Himself.

Uh...OK, I was actually trying not to flood my post with verses of Scripture, but:

Jeremiah 1:1-8 "The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests who were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin,
2 to whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.
3 It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the exile of Jerusalem in the fifth month.
4 Now the word of the LORD came to me saying,
5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."
6 Then I said, "Alas, Lord GOD! Behold, I do not know how to speak, because I am a youth."
7 But the LORD said to me, "Do not say, 'I am a youth,'
Because everywhere I send you, you shall go, And all that I command you, you shall speak.
8 "Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you to deliver you," declares the LORD.

Isaiah 49:1-5 "Listen to Me, O islands, and pay attention, you peoples from afar (B)The LORD called Me from the womb; from the body of My mother He named Me.
2 He has made my mouth like a sharp sword, in the shadow of His hand He has concealed me;
and He has also made me a select arrow, He has hidden Me in His quiver.
3 He said to Me, "You are My Servant, Israel, in whom I will show My glory."
4 But I said, "I have toiled in vain, I have spent my strength for nothing and vanity; yet surely the justice due to me is with the LORD, and my reward with My God."
5 And now says the LORD, who formed me from the womb to be His Servant, to bring Jacob back to Him, so that Israel might be gathered to Him (For I am honored in the sight of the LORD, and My God is my strength)."

Luke 1:26-45 "Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth,
27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."
29 But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was.
30 The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God.
31 "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.
32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end."
34 Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
36 "And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.
37 "For nothing will be impossible with God."
38 And Mary said, "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.
39 Now at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah,
40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth.
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
43 "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?
44 "For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.
45 "And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord."

There is a message in these verses - they are God's words! The Bible helps us learn about God and grow closer in our relationship with Him. My intent was not to preach at all, but to show that God knows us even in the womb - the Bible says that He wove us! However, I understand what you are saying and I can see how someone who is not a student of the Bible can take single verses out of context. Those of us who know the Bible and study it know better. Moreover, God speaks to us also (as you know) through His Word. We should rely on Him to guide our thoughts and beliefs as we study Scripture.

Thank you for not being rude in your reply. My intention was to teach, not lead astray.

Great message. Whether people believe it or not, God calls us to do wonderful things, even before we are born.

It is a common misconception among Christians that they will be reunited in heaven with those they had relationships with on earth.

Scriptures say that those relationships pass away at death, and will not exist in heaven.

I don't remember where it is in the Bible. But ask a minister. It's not a nice comforting message that's popular in Sunday sermons, but he'll probably know where to find it.

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Originally posted by jiminix:
It is a common misconception among Christians that they will be reunited in heaven with those they had relationships with on earth.

Scriptures say that those relationships pass away at death, and will not exist in heaven.

I don't remember where it is in the Bible. But ask a minister. It's not a nice comforting message that's popular in Sunday sermons, but he'll probably know where to find it.

Try again!
They base this on I Corinthians 15: 51-54. Regardless, the rich man recognized both Abraham and Lazarus in heaven(Lk, 16: 23). Abraham recognized the rich man(vs. 25).

Jesus taught (Matt. 22: 30, see also vss. 23-32). Hence, two who were husband and wife in this life will not function as husband and wife in heaven. Such, though, does not necessarily preclude the recognition of husband and wife

Beloved, your writer is of the opinion there will be recognition in heaven, in some way, and to some degree; but I must admit I cannot conclusively prove the scriptures teach future recognition. "The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children for ever..." (Deut. 29:29).

Matthew 8:11 "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."
If we won't recognize and remember one another, how would one ever know if this statement is true, and why worry about names if we won't know each other.