quote:

LSWho vs. Tennessee All Time Record

7-20-3

LSWho vs. Florida State All Time Record

2-7

LSWho vs. Texas All Time Record

7-9-1

LSWho vs. Stanford All Time Record

0-1

LSWho vs. SMU All Time Record

0-1-1

LSWho vs. Sewanee All Time Record

3-6

LSWho vs. Santa Clara All Time Record

0-2

LSWho vs. Nebraska All Time Record

0-5-1

LSWho vs. Maryland All Time Record

0-3

LSWho Georgia Tech All Time Record

6-12

LSWho vs. Florida All Time Record

23-28-3

LSWho vs. Cumberland All Time Record

0-1

LSWho vs. Alabama All Time Record

23-43-5



This decade:

LSWho vs. Virginia Tech

1-1

LSWho vs. Texas

0-1

LSWho vs. Iowa

0-1

LSWho vs. Georgia

2-2

LSWho vs. Auburn

4-4

LSWho vs. Florida

4-4

LSWho vs. Arkansas

5-3



RTR

quote:

Originally posted by Crimson Reign:
LSU will eternally be behind Tennessee, Nebraska, Georgia Tech, Florida, Florida State, and Alabama in the All Time Series.

The Gators will CHOMP them this year in The Swamp.

quote:

LSWho vs. Tennessee All Time Record

7-20-3

LSWho vs. Florida State All Time Record

2-7

LSWho vs. Texas All Time Record

7-9-1

LSWho vs. Stanford All Time Record

0-1

LSWho vs. SMU All Time Record

0-1-1

LSWho vs. Sewanee All Time Record

3-6

LSWho vs. Santa Clara All Time Record

0-2

LSWho vs. Nebraska All Time Record

0-5-1

LSWho vs. Maryland All Time Record

0-3

LSWho Georgia Tech All Time Record

6-12

LSWho vs. Florida All Time Record

23-28-3

LSWho vs. Cumberland All Time Record

0-1

LSWho vs. Alabama All Time Record

23-43-5



This decade:

LSWho vs. Virginia Tech

1-1

LSWho vs. Texas

0-1

LSWho vs. Iowa

0-1

LSWho vs. Georgia

2-2

LSWho vs. Auburn

4-4

LSWho vs. Florida

4-4

LSWho vs. Arkansas

5-3



RTR

quote:

Originally posted by chowder2740:

quote:

This was a reasonable post, and I cannot completely reject the “missing ingredient” argument, although I do not understand why no coach in recent memory prior to Saban was successful to any degree at LSU. This isn’t really relevant to this debate, but I would like to point out that Bama is pretty easy to win at as well when we have a remotely competent coach. We won an SEC Championship with Mike Dubose for god’s sake, beating a Spurrier coached FL team twice, once in Gainesville and then in Atlanta. While there is another major program in our state; when things are right in the football world, we get at least 80% of the kids we want, and fill out the class with a handful of out-of-state stars. Last year, Auburn went 0-15 on in state kids when they went head to head against Bama. An AU fan would even admit they have to go to GA and FL for their recruiting base. In other words, talent should not be a problem at Alabama with a decent recruiter.

I agree that Saban is a great fit at Alabama. I wouldnt say the Tide is an easy place to succeed but thats only because of the (sometimes) unreal expectations and pressure of its fan base. Its a catch 22. Undoubtably Bama has one of, if not the most, rabid fans in all of college football. When you're successful or rebuilding it's great. When there is adversity however, that rabidness can and has worked against you.

Like I've said else where, one of Sabans greatest characteristics as a coach is his ability to change mindsets (players, fans and media included). I cant think of a better coaching fit than CNS at Alabama.

To asnwer your question about why no coach before him was able to have consistancy in winning I believe nicco25 has provided a good explaination. LSU's AD went cheap, looking for "diamands in the rough" insted of qualified coaches.

Dinardo didnt have a single winning season out of Vanderbilt when he was hired (5-6, 4-7, 4-7, 5-6).

Curley Hallman was hired from Southern Mississippi. The small school did great (23-11) but that was with future hall of famer Bret Favre at the helm.

LSU was Mike Archer's first HC job. When he was hired, he became the youngest HC in Div I at 34.

quote:

The rest of your post is addressing an argument that I have already clearly rejected on this thread; that we can assume that Miles is like Larry Coker given some superficial similarities in their respective careers. If you go to the first page of this thread, about five posts down you will see me disagreeing with the topic poster, and even giving praise to the job Miles has done thus far. This is not to say I think Miles is going to go down as one of the greats. I don’t, but that is just my opinion. We will obviously have to wait a few years to begin to see both Miles’ and Saban’s legacies shape up.

My opologies.

quote:

Finally, I do not alter people’s words to prove my point. Do you? I took your lengthy post diminishing his MSU career as you arguing that he was not a good coach and, thus, did not really do anything to improve LSU’s program, as that is certainly the argument 5straight was making. Just as you apparently misinterpreted my argument as one admonishing all things Miles, I misinterpreted your argument as one of the many from your brethren that undermine everything Saban did to restore your program to its current state of glory.

I think people are sometimes too quick to jump on the defensive (myself included at times). When you see Sabans Mich ST. record referenced in its entirity, it isnt meant as a slam. Rather, a tool for comparison.

Often times we heap lauded praise on our coaches and lose much needed objectivity. Sabans accompishments as a Sparten were about equal to that of Miles at Okie St. Both had comprable winning percentages, Miles with the edge on bowls, Saban ended his tenure on a higher note. In the end its safe to say, both are good coaches with similar backgrounds. After all, its thier parallels which keeps breathing thier names into the same sentences ad nauseam.

One other tie-in comparison was the state of LSU football before CNS. As I have stated above, no massive overhaul or "Mission Impossible" feat was needed. That isnt a slam on Saban but rather an attempt to put that accomlishment into its proper perspective (Only those that chose to believe Saban as a football God should feel this is a slight). Dinardo, as unacceptable as his term was, still brought in great talent and had an "overall" record comprable to that of what both Miles and Saban had done at lesser schools (Not acceptable at LSU however). We lacked good coaching (HC and especially assistants), as is evident in CNS winning 8 games his first year and reaching the title game in his second.

Miles has the unenveable task of walking out of someone elses shadow as far as respect. Saban has the daunting task and pressure of repeating a rebuilding process at a historical school.

Both have a shot to leave lasting impressions and become a part of football lore. Time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by 5straight:

quote:

When it comes to the Miles vs Coker analogy, this year will be the watershed year, and give everyone a fair idea whether Les Miles will follow the self-destructive path of Larry Coker or not. This has to have the LSU fans going crazy with anticipation and fear. Why else would they begin irrationally screaming and hysterically denying any similarities between Coker and Miles.

From this point on, the LSU program is "all" Les Miles' creation. The recruits of Nick Saban will no longer cast a shadow over any future LSU success.

Part of the fun this year, for some of us , will be to see what happens to the cries of support if/when LSU loses and the sheen begins to come off the NC trophy. At that point we will begin to see the true nature of the LSU fan base. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men...the shadow does, but he won't tell...that is why we have to wait!

Who is screaming irrationally? Just because you can name 1 coach who started out as well as Miles and collapsed, Miles will necessarily do the same? What about the coaches who started out as well and didn't collapse; doesn't Miles seem eerily similar to them right now?

While most people admit next year might be tough with 3 maybe even 4 losses (without a QB), no level-headed LSU fan is worried considering the talent we are bringing in (I know, I know - despite rankings, if Saban didn't sign them, they're worthless right?).

Here's a better comparison for you - Florida (win a NC, have 4 losses, then are right back favored to be there again). Expect the same sequence for LSU in 2009.

An even better comparison might be Saban-Spurrier as someone mentioned earlier, though.

And finally...Major, I know we have had differences in the past, and based on your posts it is evident that you are not "overly" intelligent, but try to follow this. If Coach A signs a player and subsequently leaves; and Coach B comes in and coaches, inspires, practices with, watches film with, etc. would you still give credit to coach A for that player's success? To instead credit coach B seems to have been an undisputed part of football (never heard anything about Zook/Meyers) until it became Saban we were talking about.

Either way, you don't have to be impressed with Miles. But you are in for a rude awakening if you honestly believe LSU to fall off the map (despite whatever may happen next year) as they bring in players as good as or better than the ones Saban brought in, and continue to develop them in the same way as they did last years NCs.

quote:

Originally posted by thatthang:

quote:

Originally posted by chowder2740:

quote:

This was a reasonable post, and I cannot completely reject the “missing ingredient” argument, although I do not understand why no coach in recent memory prior to Saban was successful to any degree at LSU. This isn’t really relevant to this debate, but I would like to point out that Bama is pretty easy to win at as well when we have a remotely competent coach. We won an SEC Championship with Mike Dubose for god’s sake, beating a Spurrier coached FL team twice, once in Gainesville and then in Atlanta. While there is another major program in our state; when things are right in the football world, we get at least 80% of the kids we want, and fill out the class with a handful of out-of-state stars. Last year, Auburn went 0-15 on in state kids when they went head to head against Bama. An AU fan would even admit they have to go to GA and FL for their recruiting base. In other words, talent should not be a problem at Alabama with a decent recruiter.

I agree that Saban is a great fit at Alabama. I wouldnt say the Tide is an easy place to succeed but thats only because of the (sometimes) unreal expectations and pressure of its fan base. Its a catch 22. Undoubtably Bama has one of, if not the most, rabid fans in all of college football. When you're successful or rebuilding it's great. When there is adversity however, that rabidness can and has worked against you.

Like I've said else where, one of Sabans greatest characteristics as a coach is his ability to change mindsets (players, fans and media included). I cant think of a better coaching fit than CNS at Alabama.

To asnwer your question about why no coach before him was able to have consistancy in winning I believe nicco25 has provided a good explaination. LSU's AD went cheap, looking for "diamands in the rough" insted of qualified coaches.

Dinardo didnt have a single winning season out of Vanderbilt when he was hired (5-6, 4-7, 4-7, 5-6).

Curley Hallman was hired from Southern Mississippi. The small school did great (23-11) but that was with future hall of famer Bret Favre at the helm.

LSU was Mike Archer's first HC job. When he was hired, he became the youngest HC in Div I at 34.

quote:

The rest of your post is addressing an argument that I have already clearly rejected on this thread; that we can assume that Miles is like Larry Coker given some superficial similarities in their respective careers. If you go to the first page of this thread, about five posts down you will see me disagreeing with the topic poster, and even giving praise to the job Miles has done thus far. This is not to say I think Miles is going to go down as one of the greats. I don’t, but that is just my opinion. We will obviously have to wait a few years to begin to see both Miles’ and Saban’s legacies shape up.

My opologies.

quote:

Finally, I do not alter people’s words to prove my point. Do you? I took your lengthy post diminishing his MSU career as you arguing that he was not a good coach and, thus, did not really do anything to improve LSU’s program, as that is certainly the argument 5straight was making. Just as you apparently misinterpreted my argument as one admonishing all things Miles, I misinterpreted your argument as one of the many from your brethren that undermine everything Saban did to restore your program to its current state of glory.

I think people are sometimes too quick to jump on the defensive (myself included at times). When you see Sabans Mich ST. record referenced in its entirity, it isnt meant as a slam. Rather, a tool for comparison.

Often times we heap lauded praise on our coaches and lose much needed objectivity. Sabans accompishments as a Sparten were about equal to that of Miles at Okie St. Both had comprable winning percentages, Miles with the edge on bowls, Saban ended his tenure on a higher note. In the end its safe to say, both are good coaches with similar backgrounds. After all, its thier parallels which keeps breathing thier names into the same sentences ad nauseam.

One other tie-in comparison was the state of LSU football before CNS. As I have stated above, no massive overhaul or "Mission Impossible" feat was needed. That isnt a slam on Saban but rather an attempt to put that accomlishment into its proper perspective (Only those that chose to believe Saban as a football God should feel this is a slight). Dinardo, as unacceptable as his term was, still brought in great talent and had an "overall" record comprable to that of what both Miles and Saban had done at lesser schools (Not acceptable at LSU however). We lacked good coaching (HC and especially assistants), as is evident in CNS winning 8 games his first year and reaching the title game in his second.

Miles has the unenveable task of walking out of someone elses shadow as far as respect. Saban has the daunting task and pressure of repeating a rebuilding process at a historical school.

Both have a shot to leave lasting impressions and become a part of football lore. Time will tell.

Interesting analysis Nicco and Chowder. It is always good to get different perspectives and come to your own conclusions. This is why I often find it more interesting to talk to rival posters(that are civil) than my Bama brethren. Perhaps LSU under Dinardo wasn’t in as bad shape as the horrendous records would lead you to believe.

I agree that one of Saban’s characteristics that excited me the most when we hired him(besides his recruiting) was his ability to change mindsets, which you mention Chowder. It’s either his way or the highway, and that is exactly what we need to clean out some of the rot that has plagued our program for years.

I would like to throw one more thing out there that I would be very interested in hearing both of your takes on regarding Miles’ play calling. The play at the end of the AU game was brought up on this thread. While I must admit I was puzzled at the time(I thought if the ball was bobbled the clock could have easily run out), lets just forget about that call for now. While I still regard it as somewhat reckless, I can respect that call as he was going for the win, something we never saw in four years under Shula. I’m not obsessed with LSU or Miles, so the only LSU games I watched in their entirety were Bama(obviously) and OSU. When the Bama/LSU game was over, my thoughts, after the rage of letting that one slip through our fingers subsided, were “what a horrible game plan by Miles”. I think anyone who watched that game could see that LSU could have run the ball down our throats and have the game over by halftime. We just had no answer to your running game. Would you agree? So what does Miles do? He runs all those trick plays that kept backfiring, and at the end of the game was extremely lucky to get out of Tuscaloosa with the win. I commented the following week to a close LSU friend that it seemed like Miles personally wanted to win the game; he did not seem content in letting his players win it themselves. He agreed whole heartedly, and said that was why he wasn’t sold on the guy. Part of what makes a great coach is certainly his ability to motivate, his ability to see something in another team and exploit a weakness with a trick play, and to go for the throat when they think the time is right; but a huge part is also simply recognizing when your team has an advantage in an area, and exploiting that weakness over and over until your enemy is destroyed. This is why I loved watching Gene Stallings coach so much, although not much of the public would find him exciting these days, and this is also why I think Miles play calling is suspect. Thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by nicco25:

quote:

Originally posted by thatthang:

quote:

Originally posted by chowder2740:

quote:

This was a reasonable post, and I cannot completely reject the “missing ingredient” argument, although I do not understand why no coach in recent memory prior to Saban was successful to any degree at LSU. This isn’t really relevant to this debate, but I would like to point out that Bama is pretty easy to win at as well when we have a remotely competent coach. We won an SEC Championship with Mike Dubose for god’s sake, beating a Spurrier coached FL team twice, once in Gainesville and then in Atlanta. While there is another major program in our state; when things are right in the football world, we get at least 80% of the kids we want, and fill out the class with a handful of out-of-state stars. Last year, Auburn went 0-15 on in state kids when they went head to head against Bama. An AU fan would even admit they have to go to GA and FL for their recruiting base. In other words, talent should not be a problem at Alabama with a decent recruiter.

I agree that Saban is a great fit at Alabama. I wouldnt say the Tide is an easy place to succeed but thats only because of the (sometimes) unreal expectations and pressure of its fan base. Its a catch 22. Undoubtably Bama has one of, if not the most, rabid fans in all of college football. When you're successful or rebuilding it's great. When there is adversity however, that rabidness can and has worked against you.

Like I've said else where, one of Sabans greatest characteristics as a coach is his ability to change mindsets (players, fans and media included). I cant think of a better coaching fit than CNS at Alabama.

To asnwer your question about why no coach before him was able to have consistancy in winning I believe nicco25 has provided a good explaination. LSU's AD went cheap, looking for "diamands in the rough" insted of qualified coaches.

Dinardo didnt have a single winning season out of Vanderbilt when he was hired (5-6, 4-7, 4-7, 5-6).

Curley Hallman was hired from Southern Mississippi. The small school did great (23-11) but that was with future hall of famer Bret Favre at the helm.

LSU was Mike Archer's first HC job. When he was hired, he became the youngest HC in Div I at 34.

quote:

The rest of your post is addressing an argument that I have already clearly rejected on this thread; that we can assume that Miles is like Larry Coker given some superficial similarities in their respective careers. If you go to the first page of this thread, about five posts down you will see me disagreeing with the topic poster, and even giving praise to the job Miles has done thus far. This is not to say I think Miles is going to go down as one of the greats. I don’t, but that is just my opinion. We will obviously have to wait a few years to begin to see both Miles’ and Saban’s legacies shape up.

My opologies.

quote:

Finally, I do not alter people’s words to prove my point. Do you? I took your lengthy post diminishing his MSU career as you arguing that he was not a good coach and, thus, did not really do anything to improve LSU’s program, as that is certainly the argument 5straight was making. Just as you apparently misinterpreted my argument as one admonishing all things Miles, I misinterpreted your argument as one of the many from your brethren that undermine everything Saban did to restore your program to its current state of glory.

I think people are sometimes too quick to jump on the defensive (myself included at times). When you see Sabans Mich ST. record referenced in its entirity, it isnt meant as a slam. Rather, a tool for comparison.

Often times we heap lauded praise on our coaches and lose much needed objectivity. Sabans accompishments as a Sparten were about equal to that of Miles at Okie St. Both had comprable winning percentages, Miles with the edge on bowls, Saban ended his tenure on a higher note. In the end its safe to say, both are good coaches with similar backgrounds. After all, its thier parallels which keeps breathing thier names into the same sentences ad nauseam.

One other tie-in comparison was the state of LSU football before CNS. As I have stated above, no massive overhaul or "Mission Impossible" feat was needed. That isnt a slam on Saban but rather an attempt to put that accomlishment into its proper perspective (Only those that chose to believe Saban as a football God should feel this is a slight). Dinardo, as unacceptable as his term was, still brought in great talent and had an "overall" record comprable to that of what both Miles and Saban had done at lesser schools (Not acceptable at LSU however). We lacked good coaching (HC and especially assistants), as is evident in CNS winning 8 games his first year and reaching the title game in his second.

Miles has the unenveable task of walking out of someone elses shadow as far as respect. Saban has the daunting task and pressure of repeating a rebuilding process at a historical school.

Both have a shot to leave lasting impressions and become a part of football lore. Time will tell.

Interesting analysis Nicco and Chowder. It is always good to get different perspectives and come to your own conclusions. This is why I often find it more interesting to talk to rival posters(that are civil) than my Bama brethren. Perhaps LSU under Dinardo wasn’t in as bad shape as the horrendous records would lead you to believe.

I agree that one of Saban’s characteristics that excited me the most when we hired him(besides his recruiting) was his ability to change mindsets, which you mention Chowder. It’s either his way or the highway, and that is exactly what we need to clean out some of the rot that has plagued our program for years.

I would like to throw one more thing out there that I would be very interested in hearing both of your takes on regarding Miles’ play calling. The play at the end of the AU game was brought up on this thread. While I must admit I was puzzled at the time(I thought if the ball was bobbled the clock could have easily run out), lets just forget about that call for now. While I still regard it as somewhat reckless, I can respect that call as he was going for the win, something we never saw in four years under Shula. I’m not obsessed with LSU or Miles, so the only LSU games I watched in their entirety were Bama(obviously) and OSU. When the Bama/LSU game was over, my thoughts, after the rage of letting that one slip through our fingers subsided, were “what a horrible game plan by Miles”. I think anyone who watched that game could see that LSU could have run the ball down our throats and have the game over by halftime. We just had no answer to your running game. Would you agree? So what does Miles do? He runs all those trick plays that kept backfiring, and at the end of the game was extremely lucky to get out of Tuscaloosa with the win. I commented the following week to a close LSU friend that it seemed like Miles personally wanted to win the game; he did not seem content in letting his players win it themselves. He agreed whole heartedly, and said that was why he wasn’t sold on the guy. Part of what makes a great coach is certainly his ability to motivate, his ability to see something in another team and exploit a weakness with a trick play, and to go for the throat when they think the time is right; but a huge part is also simply recognizing when your team has an advantage in an area, and exploiting that weakness over and over until your enemy is destroyed. This is why I loved watching Gene Stallings coach so much, although not much of the public would find him exciting these days, and this is also why I think Miles play calling is suspect. Thoughts?

Bad game plan? Was Flynn throwing 3 ints. part of the gameplan? Was Bama returning a punt part of his gameplan? I just don't understand how everytime Miles plays close games, he is criticized as having a bad game plan.

The truth is, when the game was on the line, Miles blitzed JPW forcing a fumble turning the game into LSU's favor. While Saban rushed three guys, giving Flynn time to find a wide open Doucet for a TD.

And you also said this: "but a huge part is also simply recognizing when your team has an advantage in an area, and exploiting that weakness over and over until your enemy is destroyed."

Did you watch the Ohio State game? It seems to me Bama fans are underestimating themselves. Winning an SEC road game is not easy, regardless of how talented you are. Yet for some reason, people feel LSU should win every game 52-0, otherwise it's a poor coaching performance.

My point is, if it was Spurrier, Saban, Meyer, Carroll, etc.. making the calls Miles did this season, they would be hailed as a genius football coach.

quote:

Originally posted by thatthang:

quote:

Originally posted by nicco25:

quote:

Originally posted by thatthang:

quote:

Originally posted by chowder2740:

quote:

This was a reasonable post, and I cannot completely reject the “missing ingredient” argument, although I do not understand why no coach in recent memory prior to Saban was successful to any degree at LSU. This isn’t really relevant to this debate, but I would like to point out that Bama is pretty easy to win at as well when we have a remotely competent coach. We won an SEC Championship with Mike Dubose for god’s sake, beating a Spurrier coached FL team twice, once in Gainesville and then in Atlanta. While there is another major program in our state; when things are right in the football world, we get at least 80% of the kids we want, and fill out the class with a handful of out-of-state stars. Last year, Auburn went 0-15 on in state kids when they went head to head against Bama. An AU fan would even admit they have to go to GA and FL for their recruiting base. In other words, talent should not be a problem at Alabama with a decent recruiter.

I agree that Saban is a great fit at Alabama. I wouldnt say the Tide is an easy place to succeed but thats only because of the (sometimes) unreal expectations and pressure of its fan base. Its a catch 22. Undoubtably Bama has one of, if not the most, rabid fans in all of college football. When you're successful or rebuilding it's great. When there is adversity however, that rabidness can and has worked against you.

Like I've said else where, one of Sabans greatest characteristics as a coach is his ability to change mindsets (players, fans and media included). I cant think of a better coaching fit than CNS at Alabama.

To asnwer your question about why no coach before him was able to have consistancy in winning I believe nicco25 has provided a good explaination. LSU's AD went cheap, looking for "diamands in the rough" insted of qualified coaches.

Dinardo didnt have a single winning season out of Vanderbilt when he was hired (5-6, 4-7, 4-7, 5-6).

Curley Hallman was hired from Southern Mississippi. The small school did great (23-11) but that was with future hall of famer Bret Favre at the helm.

LSU was Mike Archer's first HC job. When he was hired, he became the youngest HC in Div I at 34.

quote:

The rest of your post is addressing an argument that I have already clearly rejected on this thread; that we can assume that Miles is like Larry Coker given some superficial similarities in their respective careers. If you go to the first page of this thread, about five posts down you will see me disagreeing with the topic poster, and even giving praise to the job Miles has done thus far. This is not to say I think Miles is going to go down as one of the greats. I don’t, but that is just my opinion. We will obviously have to wait a few years to begin to see both Miles’ and Saban’s legacies shape up.

My opologies.

quote:

Finally, I do not alter people’s words to prove my point. Do you? I took your lengthy post diminishing his MSU career as you arguing that he was not a good coach and, thus, did not really do anything to improve LSU’s program, as that is certainly the argument 5straight was making. Just as you apparently misinterpreted my argument as one admonishing all things Miles, I misinterpreted your argument as one of the many from your brethren that undermine everything Saban did to restore your program to its current state of glory.

I think people are sometimes too quick to jump on the defensive (myself included at times). When you see Sabans Mich ST. record referenced in its entirity, it isnt meant as a slam. Rather, a tool for comparison.

Often times we heap lauded praise on our coaches and lose much needed objectivity. Sabans accompishments as a Sparten were about equal to that of Miles at Okie St. Both had comprable winning percentages, Miles with the edge on bowls, Saban ended his tenure on a higher note. In the end its safe to say, both are good coaches with similar backgrounds. After all, its thier parallels which keeps breathing thier names into the same sentences ad nauseam.

One other tie-in comparison was the state of LSU football before CNS. As I have stated above, no massive overhaul or "Mission Impossible" feat was needed. That isnt a slam on Saban but rather an attempt to put that accomlishment into its proper perspective (Only those that chose to believe Saban as a football God should feel this is a slight). Dinardo, as unacceptable as his term was, still brought in great talent and had an "overall" record comprable to that of what both Miles and Saban had done at lesser schools (Not acceptable at LSU however). We lacked good coaching (HC and especially assistants), as is evident in CNS winning 8 games his first year and reaching the title game in his second.

Miles has the unenveable task of walking out of someone elses shadow as far as respect. Saban has the daunting task and pressure of repeating a rebuilding process at a historical school.

Both have a shot to leave lasting impressions and become a part of football lore. Time will tell.

Interesting analysis Nicco and Chowder. It is always good to get different perspectives and come to your own conclusions. This is why I often find it more interesting to talk to rival posters(that are civil) than my Bama brethren. Perhaps LSU under Dinardo wasn’t in as bad shape as the horrendous records would lead you to believe.

I agree that one of Saban’s characteristics that excited me the most when we hired him(besides his recruiting) was his ability to change mindsets, which you mention Chowder. It’s either his way or the highway, and that is exactly what we need to clean out some of the rot that has plagued our program for years.

I would like to throw one more thing out there that I would be very interested in hearing both of your takes on regarding Miles’ play calling. The play at the end of the AU game was brought up on this thread. While I must admit I was puzzled at the time(I thought if the ball was bobbled the clock could have easily run out), lets just forget about that call for now. While I still regard it as somewhat reckless, I can respect that call as he was going for the win, something we never saw in four years under Shula. I’m not obsessed with LSU or Miles, so the only LSU games I watched in their entirety were Bama(obviously) and OSU. When the Bama/LSU game was over, my thoughts, after the rage of letting that one slip through our fingers subsided, were “what a horrible game plan by Miles”. I think anyone who watched that game could see that LSU could have run the ball down our throats and have the game over by halftime. We just had no answer to your running game. Would you agree? So what does Miles do? He runs all those trick plays that kept backfiring, and at the end of the game was extremely lucky to get out of Tuscaloosa with the win. I commented the following week to a close LSU friend that it seemed like Miles personally wanted to win the game; he did not seem content in letting his players win it themselves. He agreed whole heartedly, and said that was why he wasn’t sold on the guy. Part of what makes a great coach is certainly his ability to motivate, his ability to see something in another team and exploit a weakness with a trick play, and to go for the throat when they think the time is right; but a huge part is also simply recognizing when your team has an advantage in an area, and exploiting that weakness over and over until your enemy is destroyed. This is why I loved watching Gene Stallings coach so much, although not much of the public would find him exciting these days, and this is also why I think Miles play calling is suspect. Thoughts?

Bad game plan? Was Flynn throwing 3 ints. part of the gameplan? Was Bama returning a punt part of his gameplan? I just don't understand how everytime Miles plays close games, he is criticized as having a bad game plan.

The truth is, when the game was on the line, Miles blitzed JPW forcing a fumble turning the game into LSU's favor. While Saban rushed three guys, giving Flynn time to find a wide open Doucet for a TD.

And you also said this: "but a huge part is also simply recognizing when your team has an advantage in an area, and exploiting that weakness over and over until your enemy is destroyed."

Did you watch the Ohio State game? It seems to me Bama fans are underestimating themselves. Winning an SEC road game is not easy, regardless of how talented you are. Yet for some reason, people feel LSU should win every game 52-0, otherwise it's a poor coaching performance.

My point is, if it was Spurrier, Saban, Meyer, Carroll, etc.. making the calls Miles did this season, they would be hailed as a genius football coach.

No, I do not expect LSU to blow out any SEC opponent by 52, much less a "big 6" team like Bama. I'm not saying something vague like "LSU should have destroyed us because they had more talent." What I'm saying is that LSU could have had that specific game over by halftime if they just kept the ball on the ground. Do you agree or disagree with this? You bringing up Flynn's int's kind of makes my point. Why were those risky pass plays even getting called after the first, second, and third INT? I know you go into any game wanting to mix it up to keep the D off balance, but in this SPECIFIC game, we simply had no answer for LSU's running attach. I'm not some eternal Miles basher. I'm simply saying that I don't see that specific game beeing close if Miles would have kept it simple. Maybe we would have eventually found a way to stop the run, I just don't understand why LSU didn't keep running until we did.

quote:

I would like to throw one more thing out there that I would be very interested in hearing both of your takes on regarding Miles’ play calling. The play at the end of the AU game was brought up on this thread. While I must admit I was puzzled at the time(I thought if the ball was bobbled the clock could have easily run out),

quote:

When the Bama/LSU game was over, my thoughts, after the rage of letting that one slip through our fingers subsided, were “what a horrible game plan by Miles”. I think anyone who watched that game could see that LSU could have run the ball down our throats and have the game over by halftime. We just had no answer to your running game. Would you agree? So what does Miles do? He runs all those trick plays that kept backfiring, and at the end of the game was extremely lucky to get out of Tuscaloosa with the win.