quote:

I mean, to blow that lead at home against an average Tennessee team lead by Rick Clausen of all people was beyond pathetic and beyond forgivable.

Losing to them after the largest natural disaster hits your state isnt pathetic. Losing to this team is...........

quote:

with all that talent and it was UNDERACHIEVING for Miles to again lose two games

And yet he never lost to a team like this........



Winning 11 and 12 games a year, finishing in the top 5 three years in a row, winning the NC....and doing so losing to bowl eligible teams here and there isnt underachieving.

Lossing to college footballs equivalant highschool teams is.

When it comes to the Miles vs Coker analogy, this year will be the watershed year, and give everyone a fair idea whether Les Miles will follow the self-destructive path of Larry Coker or not. This has to have the LSU fans going crazy with anticipation and fear. Why else would they begin irrationally screaming and hysterically denying any similarities between Coker and Miles.

From this point on, the LSU program is "all" Les Miles' creation. The recruits of Nick Saban will no longer cast a shadow over any future LSU success.

Part of the fun this year, for some of us , will be to see what happens to the cries of support if/when LSU loses and the sheen begins to come off the NC trophy. At that point we will begin to see the true nature of the LSU fan base. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men...the shadow does, but he won't tell...that is why we have to wait!

quote:

Originally posted by Crimson Jake:

quote:

Originally posted by Crimson Reign:
LSU while loaded with future NFL players and a juggernaut of a team managed to:


Lose at home to a (5-6) Tennessee team after building a huge lead...lost to RICK CLAUSEN!!
One of these guys:



Then got obliterated by 20 points in the SEC Championship game.

In 2006 lost to Florida and Auburn, both games that were very winnable.

2007 of course lost to an 8-5 Kentucky team and an 8-5 Arkansas team.



RTR

I don't know CR. If you start playing that game then the skeletons in Saban's closet come running out screaming for recognition. Lester has done a very good job at LSU so far.

The last inheritor that I remeber being decent was some dude named Tom Osbourne. You may not have heard of him, but he replaced the legendary Bob Devaney (101-20 at Nebraska). Nebraska was 33-2-1 under Devaney the 3 years prior to Osborne taking over in 1973. Despite Devaney's suceess Osborne managed to carve out a small nitch for himself in Nebraska folklore by winning 255 games and 3 national championships (played for 3 others and practically gave the '83 title to miami) in 25 years.

Maybe Lester is the next Larry Cocker (let's hope so) or maybe he's the next Tom Osborne (let's hope not), but more likely he's something in between.

CNS has no skeletons in his closet.

quote:

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men...the shadow does

You are really showing your age now LoL

quote:

CNS has no skeletons in his closet.

I dont know, criticizing Miles for only winning 2 games a year (A feat Saban had only achieved once in 6 years) is kinda silly dont you think? Calling lossing to bowl eligible 8-5 teams in overtime underachieving while the coach he defends drops games to the UAB's, ULM's, Ole Miss's, Miss St teams is as dumb as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Crimson Reign:

For an example of the likely future direction of LSU just take a glance at the decline of Larry Coker who inherited a tremendous group of Butch Davis' recruits. Like Saban, Davis did all of the hard ground work and moved on prior to his recruits coming to their full fruition. Coker got credit for the early winning percentage, but all rational minds know that it was Butch who was responsible for the Miami juggernaut.

Complete nonsense:

quote:

Coker was hired as head coach of Miami at the behest of the team, who had been edged out of appearing in the BCS Championship Game the year before and lobbied to the Miami Athletic Department that Coker be promoted. Coker met with immediate success, as he guided the Hurricanes to a 12-0 record and the national championship in his first season, dominating a Nebraska Cornhuskers team in the Rose Bowl. For his efforts, Coker was given numerous honors, including the Bear Bryant National Coach of the Year Award and the 2001 American Football Coaches Association (AFCA) Coach of the Year Award.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Coker

Butch Davis's own recruits went to bat for Coker and got him promoted to the head coaching position at Miami..

Also, Coker won 80 percent of his games over six seasons (by comparison Gene Stallings won 80 percent of his games over the span of seven seasons)....

Sure, you could say that he was getting a free lunch off of Davis's recruiting....but that has only about a 2-year impact at the most..

So even Coker's seasons #3 & 4 were pretty respectable 11 - 2 and 9 - 3..

And it's not like Butch Davis had to go out and beg recruits on his hands & knees to play for Miami...the Hurricanes had already had a few hit records on the charts long before Davis ever came along to recruit (i.e. Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, & Dennis Erickson),...so conceivably speaking, Davis was just as guilty of getting a free ride from the coattails of Erickson as Coker was supposedly off of Davis..

Finally, Coker's bio says that he was Butch Davis's offensive coordinator at Miami from nearly Day 1, so that means that Coker himself was responsible for recruiting quite a few of those players (that you are giving Butch Davis exclusive credit for):

quote:

"Coker had served as an assistant at several universities (including Ohio State, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State) and as Miami's offensive coordinator from 1995 to 2000 before taking over as head coach following the departure of then-coach Butch Davis to the Cleveland Browns of the NFL."

Even though Nick Saban gets all the credit for recruiting all-stars, he does indeed have some excellent assistants who are exceptional recruiters as well (as did Butch Davis during his tenure at Miami).

quote:

Butch Davis's own recruits went to bat for Coker and got him promoted to the head coaching position at Miami..

Players always beg for the Player's Coach to get promoted and eventually they all suck and fail.

They like the soft hand rather than the one who will crack the whip.

Coker was a fool as a head coach and you are completely alone in your lunatic beliefs. We have covered this ground before and you are simply wrong.

Keep licking Coker's boot heels and Shula's but it will do you no good.

Davis rebuilt Miami and Coker got lucky and coasted on it.

Saban rebuilt LSU and Miles is a pretty good coach (probably quite a bit better than Coker) but has coasted for three years and those three years are now up...the real measure is coming like I said before from 2008 to 2009 and 2010. Watch and you shall see what I am talking about, but a coward like you will never admit you were wrong. You will prevaricate as usual and come up with lots of faulty reasoning as to why suddenly LSU is losing more than two games per year when theoretically according to the recruiting rankings they will still out-talent all of their opponents.

Davis did not get a free ride from Erickson if you would remember because he inherited a program that was devastated by sanctions and unlike Shula actually did rebuild the place and left it in great condition...as anyone can tell now Shula had four years and left Bama in a garbage dump and Saban is having to work his tail off to barely break even and recruit in a manner that Bama has not done since the days of the Bear to overcome the Shula/Dubose/NCAA induced debacle. All based on bad decisions and player/fan idiots begging for the player's coach DumBose to be promoted when he should not have been. Shula was a pathetic choice from the get go and the NFL had all but ran him out, he is there now and doing a decent job as a position coach but I do not think he really coaches Garrard all that much anyway. Bottom line Shula sucked, Coker fell apart and had no business leading that team and let it crumble, Dubose was a fool and you worship all of these losers because you think talent is the end all be all of football life and that Shula could have been as good as the Bear. Insanity.

quote:

So even Coker's seasons #3 & 4 were pretty respectable 11 - 2 and 9 - 3..

As I have said, the real test is not seasons 1-3, it is seasons 4-6 where you will see the decline of Davis'/Saban's players. You cannot limit it to seasons one and two alone, that is as crazy as saying that only 2007 and 2008 will be impacted for Saban...sure 2009 there will be a chance that most of Shula's filth will be flushed and covered over with better development and better young talent (unlike both Coker and Miles' teams which were lead by senior recruited by Saban/Davis), but not until 2010 and 2011 will the full force of Saban's new players be felt.

Too many two and three star guys that have to get out of the way or that have to get fully on board with the weight program (which according to both former players and NFL scouts, was something not enforced or emphasized under Shula as there were mere sign up sheets to do work-outs rather than a tough plan in place). Shula was a panzy and was crafting his offense into a bunch of the same...his defense was tougher under Kines but Kines was initially hired by Mike Price and Shula just kept him probably because he could not think of anything else to do and was paralyzed by fear as he always appeared to be on the sidelines.



Stallings was awesome. Curry was an above average recruiter. Perkins was a jerkins. DuBose sucked. Shula sucked. Franchione had good play designs but was never committed to Bama, his D coordinator was good while he was at Bama but sucked at Texas A&M. Saban will correct most of the mess, but is not all that impressive in making gameday decisions or halftime adjustments...in fact, virtually no halftime adjustments at all unlike the FSU game where FSU did change at the half and came out and beat us with a mobile QB threat that Bama had clearly not prepared for in the least. Better talent and eventually we can go the Fulmer route and out-talent a lot of teams, but out-coach very few even or superior talented teams.



RTR

Ummmmmmmm, isnt Butch Davis also a so called inheritor?

This was the program under Dennis Erickson before Davis came to town.....

1989 Miami 11-1 National Championship
1990 Miami 10-2
1991 Miami 12-0 National Championship
1992 Miami 11-1 Conference Title
1993 Miami 9-3
1994 Miami 10-2 Conference Title

Butch Davis had twice as many losses than Ericson (20 vs 9) and 5 more than Coker (20 vs 15) in the same amount of time and is the only coach of the three to have a below .500 year at Miami.

Dennis Erickson 63-9 *Six years
Butch Davis 51-20 *Six years
Larry Coker 60-15 *Six years
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Erickson 2 NC's, 3 CC's
Butch Davis 0 NC's, 2 CC's
Larry Coker 1 NC's, 3 CC's
-----------------------------------------------------------
*Number of years with fewer than 9 wins*

Dennis Erickson 0
Butch Davis 2
Larry Coker 1
-------------------------------------------------------------
Butch Davis did less with what he inherited than Coker did.

chowder2740
Red-shirt Freshman

Posted May 16, 2008 11:49 PM Hide Post
Ummmmmmmm, isnt Butch Davis also a so called inheritor?

This was the program under Dennis Erickson before Davis came to town.....

1989 Miami 11-1 National Championship
1990 Miami 10-2
1991 Miami 12-0 National Championship
1992 Miami 11-1 Conference Title
1993 Miami 9-3
1994 Miami 10-2 Conference Title

Butch Davis had twice as many losses than Ericson (20 vs 9) and 5 more than Coker (20 vs 15) in the same amount of time and is the only coach of the three to have a below .500 year at Miami.

Dennis Erickson 63-9 *Six years
Butch Davis 51-20 *Six years
Larry Coker 60-15 *Six years
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Erickson 2 NC's, 3 CC's
Butch Davis 0 NC's, 2 CC's
Larry Coker 1 NC's, 3 CC's
-----------------------------------------------------------
*Number of years with fewer than 9 wins*

Dennis Erickson 0
Butch Davis 2
Larry Coker 1
-------------------------------------------------------------
Butch Davis did less with what he inherited than Coker did.


If you was a lawyer this would been a hell of closing argument. Case Closed! RTR!

quote:

When it comes to the Miles vs Coker analogy, this year will be the watershed year, and give everyone a fair idea whether Les Miles will follow the self-destructive path of Larry Coker or not. This has to have the LSU fans going crazy with anticipation and fear. Why else would they begin irrationally screaming and hysterically denying any similarities between Coker and Miles.

From this point on, the LSU program is "all" Les Miles' creation. The recruits of Nick Saban will no longer cast a shadow over any future LSU success.

Part of the fun this year, for some of us , will be to see what happens to the cries of support if/when LSU loses and the sheen begins to come off the NC trophy. At that point we will begin to see the true nature of the LSU fan base. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men...the shadow does, but he won't tell...that is why we have to wait!

Who is screaming irrationally? Just because you can name 1 coach who started out as well as Miles and collapsed, Miles will necessarily do the same? What about the coaches who started out as well and didn't collapse; doesn't Miles seem eerily similar to them right now?

While most people admit next year might be tough with 3 maybe even 4 losses (without a QB), no level-headed LSU fan is worried considering the talent we are bringing in (I know, I know - despite rankings, if Saban didn't sign them, they're worthless right?).

Here's a better comparison for you - Florida (win a NC, have 4 losses, then are right back favored to be there again). Expect the same sequence for LSU in 2009.

An even better comparison might be Saban-Spurrier as someone mentioned earlier, though.

And finally...Major, I know we have had differences in the past, and based on your posts it is evident that you are not "overly" intelligent, but try to follow this. If Coach A signs a player and subsequently leaves; and Coach B comes in and coaches, inspires, practices with, watches film with, etc. would you still give credit to coach A for that player's success? To instead credit coach B seems to have been an undisputed part of football (never heard anything about Zook/Meyers) until it became Saban we were talking about.

Either way, you don't have to be impressed with Miles. But you are in for a rude awakening if you honestly believe LSU to fall off the map (despite whatever may happen next year) as they bring in players as good as or better than the ones Saban brought in, and continue to develop them in the same way as they did last years NCs.

quote:

chowder2740
Red-shirt Freshman

Posted May 16, 2008 11:49 PM Hide Post
Ummmmmmmm, isnt Butch Davis also a so called inheritor?

This was the program under Dennis Erickson before Davis came to town.....

1989 Miami 11-1 National Championship
1990 Miami 10-2
1991 Miami 12-0 National Championship
1992 Miami 11-1 Conference Title
1993 Miami 9-3
1994 Miami 10-2 Conference Title

Butch Davis had twice as many losses than Ericson (20 vs 9) and 5 more than Coker (20 vs 15) in the same amount of time and is the only coach of the three to have a below .500 year at Miami.

Dennis Erickson 63-9 *Six years
Butch Davis 51-20 *Six years
Larry Coker 60-15 *Six years
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Erickson 2 NC's, 3 CC's
Butch Davis 0 NC's, 2 CC's
Larry Coker 1 NC's, 3 CC's
-----------------------------------------------------------
*Number of years with fewer than 9 wins*

Dennis Erickson 0
Butch Davis 2
Larry Coker 1
-------------------------------------------------------------
Butch Davis did less with what he inherited than Coker did.


If you was a lawyer this would been a hell of closing argument. Case Closed! RTR!

You loser. You edoubleD's1577 are a fool. Davis inherited a program that was slapped with SEVERE NCAA sanctions and that is why Erickson had to go. I know dimwits like you have absolutely no memory whatsoever, but that is the reason Davis is so highly respected and why Coker was fired. Davis rebuilt Miami even through sanctions and formed some of the toughest teams to ever play. You are ignorant, case closed big girl.

quote:

Here's a better comparison for you - Florida (win a NC, have 4 losses, then are right back favored to be there again). Expect the same sequence for LSU in 2009.

No it is not. LSU will not get past both Auburn and Alabama in 2009, you better wake up and go check out the returning rosters for that year...especially Auburn's. They will smack LSU down that year for sure.

quote:

To instead credit coach B seems to have been an undisputed part of football (never heard anything about Zook/Meyers) until it became Saban we were talking about.

You are wrong again here. Everyone, even the national media, talked about how Meyer (and yes is is Meyer with NO S at the end of his name you dote) played and won with Zook's recruits. Everyone, even the national media knows that Zook is one of the best recruiters in all of college football...you must have missed the memo.

quote:

Either way, you don't have to be impressed with Miles. But you are in for a rude awakening if you honestly believe LSU to fall off the map (despite whatever may happen next year) as they bring in players as good as or better than the ones Saban brought in, and continue to develop them in the same way as they did last years NCs.

LSWho has also lost Pelini and that will hurt in the long run a heck of a lot more than you think. He was one of the top d-coordinators in the nation and LSU will pay for losing him with more losses on the field.


So, Corndogs, get ready to head back to third or so in the SEC West as Bama and Auburn move past you and you battle it out with Ole Miss and Arkansas for table scraps.



RTR

Actually no one was talking about Meyers winning with Zook's players. I remember it quite well. And you had better check our rosters and signees before you proclaim AU and UA will beat us. Not happening anytime soon. I could see 3 losses this year based on the schedule and a QB corp that has completed 1 collegiate pass. But right back on top in 09' pal no matter how many comparisons you want to make.

btw, LSU made Saban, and his gig is clearly up. Enjoy puttering around 3rd/4th in the SECW for the rest of his time there.

quote:

Actually no one was talking about Meyers winning with Zook's players. I remember it quite well. And you had better check our rosters and signees before you proclaim AU and UA will beat us. Not happening anytime soon. I could see 3 losses this year based on the schedule and a QB corp that has completed 1 collegiate pass. But right back on top in 09' pal no matter how many comparisons you want to make.

btw, LSU made Saban, and his gig is clearly up. Enjoy puttering around 3rd/4th in the SECW for the rest of his time there.


I have a BIG corndog

LOL, you take big corndogs and that is the heads and tails of it for you buster.



Saban made LSU, Archer sucked, DiNardo sucked, and Lester....Ha!



RTR