Saban and Butch Davis are great recruiters and they develop talent well. Coker and Lester inherited tremendous talent.

I would also add to the argument that Saban has a better eye for truly good talent that will develop the correct way. Players that are amenable to coaching and honing their skills to a professional level.

Sure, Miles has had some highly rated classes according to the services but Saban found the real hardcore players that were dedicated and committed. That group has moved on from LSU and the feet of clay will now begin to be exposed. Especially in 2009 and 2010.

For an example of the likely future direction of LSU just take a glance at the decline of Larry Coker who inherited a tremendous group of Butch Davis' recruits. Like Saban, Davis did all of the hard ground work and moved on prior to his recruits coming to their full fruition. Coker got credit for the early winning percentage, but all rational minds know that it was Butch who was responsible for the Miami juggernaut. Also, all rational minds know that it was Saban who was responsible for the LSU juggernaut of recent years and it was UNDERACHIEVING for Miles to lose two games in 2005 with all that talent and it was UNDERACHIEVING for Miles to again lose two games in 2006 and again UNDERACHIEVING with all of that talent to lose to Arkansas and Kentucky in 2007. I mean, to blow that lead at home against an average Tennessee team lead by Rick Clausen of all people was beyond pathetic and beyond forgivable.



Coker:

2001 12-0
2002 12-1
2003 11-2 (First Three Seasons= 35-3)
2004 9-3
2005 9-3
2006 7-6 Fired

Lester:

2005 11-2
2006 11-2
2007 12-2 (First Three Seasons= 34-6)
2008 10-3???/11-2/9-4???



Butch Davis 6 years at Miami=51-21 (.71831 win percentage)

Nick L. Saban 5 years at LSU=48-16 (.75000 win percentage)



Davis and Saban= The Builders, The Workers, The Creators

Coker and Lester= The Inheritors



RTR

Most posters agreed when I originally made this argument last year.

quote:

Hall of Famer
Crimson Reign


Posted November 05, 2007 12:03 AM
Coker took over reaping the rewards of the work of Butch Davis and all the massive recruiting efforts and overhaul of the Miami Hurricane program.

Butch Davis did all of the ground work for Coker's great start. Nick Saban did all of the ground work for Miles??

Coker's First Season
2001 12-0 (Called by some the greatest team of all time)
2002 12-1 (One pass interference penalty away from two consecutive national championships and undefeated seasons)
2003 11-2
2004 9-3
2005 9-3
2006 7-6 (Fired)

Les Miles
First Season
2005 11-2
2006 11-2
2007 Soon to be 10-1 heading into the rival showdown with Arkansas and then the SEC Championship game against Tennessee or Georgia


RTR

Funny to see that Miles managed to lose to Arkie and then back into the SEC and National Championship anyway...and still barely beat an average Tennessee team that had been crushed by Cal, Florida, and Alabama.


RTR

quote:

Originally posted by Crimson Reign:
Most posters agreed when I originally made this argument last year.

quote:

Hall of Famer
Crimson Reign


Posted November 05, 2007 12:03 AM
Coker took over reaping the rewards of the work of Butch Davis and all the massive recruiting efforts and overhaul of the Miami Hurricane program.

Butch Davis did all of the ground work for Coker's great start. Nick Saban did all of the ground work for Miles??

Coker's First Season
2001 12-0 (Called by some the greatest team of all time)
2002 12-1 (One pass interference penalty away from two consecutive national championships and undefeated seasons)
2003 11-2
2004 9-3
2005 9-3
2006 7-6 (Fired)

Les Miles
First Season
2005 11-2
2006 11-2
2007 Soon to be 10-1 heading into the rival showdown with Arkansas and then the SEC Championship game against Tennessee or Georgia


RTR

Funny to see that Miles managed to lose to Arkie and then back into the SEC and National Championship anyway...and still barely beat an average Tennessee team that had been crushed by Cal, Florida, and Alabama.


RTR

Yeah, but that Tennessee team crushed UGA after they got rolling. BTW you should add Lester and Cokers recruiting #'s to your argument. It's an amazing parallel.

This is BS, you can't compare Coach Miles to Coach Coker. Coach Miles continues to recruit very well and just because were gonna get better that does'nt mean the rest of the league is gonna lay down and say Bama Back we might as well shut the program down. LSU will have another top 5 recruiting class this year. We all hope and pray that CNS can duplicate what he did at LSU here but it's not in stone that he will do it. The SEC is just to damn brutal. Why can't we worry about whats going on in T-town rather than saying everybody is gonna fall off while were trying to play catch up. Just curious but did'nt Coach Miles and his coaching staff develope those players that CNS recruited. RTR!

quote:

Yeah, but that Tennessee team crushed UGA after they got rolling. BTW you should add Lester and Cokers recruiting #'s to your argument. It's an amazing parallel.

Actually, no they did not.

That was the loss that made Richt re-evaluate his entire approach and entire program. I heard him say so in an interview after the season. He changed everything and THEN Georgia got rolling...here is the schedule:

"2007: 11-2-0

Coach:


Mark Richt

W/L


Date


PF


Opponent


PA


Location


Notes

W


09-01-2007


35


Oklahoma St.


14


Athens, GA


L


09-08-2007


12


South Carolina


16


Athens, GA


W


09-15-2007


45


Western Carolina (NC)


16


Athens, GA


W


09-22-2007


26


Alabama


23


Tuscaloosa, AL


W


09-29-2007


45


Mississippi


17


Athens, GA


L


10-06-2007


14


Tennessee


35


Knoxville, TN


W


10-13-2007


20


Vanderbilt (TN)


17


Nashville, TN


W


10-27-2007


42


Florida


30


Jacksonville, FL


W


11-03-2007


44


Troy (AL)


34


Athens, GA


W


11-10-2007


45


Auburn (AL)


20


Athens, GA


W


11-17-2007


24


Kentucky


13


Athens, GA


W


11-24-2007


31


Georgia Tech


17


Atlanta, GA


W


01-01-2008


41


Hawaii


10


New Orleans, LA


Sugar Bowl


424


Season Totals


262"

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/coaching/alltime_c...achid=1977&year=2007


After the Vol loss, the Dawgs ripped off 7 consecutive wins, going 7-0 over that stretch as compared to opening the season at 4-2.


RTR

I would say this is could definitely turn out to be the case, but we will have to see how it plays out before we know for sure. Too early to tell right now.

I do kind of have a problem with the argument ridiculing the man for underachieving for losing two games each of his first three years. While I agree LSU has had more talent than most of its opponents and should have won pretty much ever game they have played in the last three years ON PAPER, I think we all must admit it is damn near impossible to go through the SEC these days undefeated. Who was the last coach to start out in the SEC with a record anything like 34-6 with a National Championship? Let's be honest: Coker's similar record in the Big East and ACC is not comparable to doing the same in the SEC.

With all that being said, I think the man is a clown. Lucky, but still a total clown. I lost my respect for him when he started acting like a little child with his newfound Alabama rivalry. I hope we see it all slip through his fingers similar to your Coker analogy. I do think his bizarre play calling should catch up to him eventually. All i'm saying is it's too early to tell right now. I think we will really see what kind of coach he is in the next two seasons.

I think its too early to say Miles is an Inheritor because if you look at his commitments so far this year, he's doing pretty well. He did ok but not great at Ok State. Did beat Ok a couple times. I think his luck will run out on some of the boneheaded calls he makes. When LSU has a so so year then we will see what kind of recruiter he is.

quote:

Originally posted by Crimson Reign:

quote:

Yeah, but that Tennessee team crushed UGA after they got rolling. BTW you should add Lester and Cokers recruiting #'s to your argument. It's an amazing parallel.

Actually, no they did not.

That was the loss that made Richt re-evaluate his entire approach and entire program. I heard him say so in an interview after the season. He changed everything and THEN Georgia got rolling...here is the schedule:


After the Vol loss, the Dawgs ripped off 7 consecutive wins, going 7-0 over that stretch as compared to opening the season at 4-2.


RTR

Sure, but I'm saying that UTerus got rolling after the Bama loss. It's all the same except that UTerus actually won the east, not UGA. Also UGA had a big winning streak to end'06 too, for what it's worth.

LSU while loaded with future NFL players and a juggernaut of a team managed to:


Lose at home to a (5-6) Tennessee team after building a huge lead...lost to RICK CLAUSEN!!
One of these guys:



Then got obliterated by 20 points in the SEC Championship game.

In 2006 lost to Florida and Auburn, both games that were very winnable.

2007 of course lost to an 8-5 Kentucky team and an 8-5 Arkansas team.



RTR

quote:

Originally posted by Crimson Reign:
LSU while loaded with future NFL players and a juggernaut of a team managed to:


Lose at home to a (5-6) Tennessee team after building a huge lead...lost to RICK CLAUSEN!!
He is the one in the middle of this pic:



Then got obliterated by 20 points in the SEC Championship game.

In 2006 lost to Florida and Auburn, both games that were very winnable.

2007 of course lost to an 8-5 Kentucky team and an 8-5 Arkansas team.



RTR

I realize this, and we could also point to his numerous bizarre play calls the last three years that will get you beat 90% of the time. All I'm saying is it is too early to tell, but I think we will have your answer within two years, maybe even this season. It will be interesting to see how he follows up the BCS championship.

PS- Is that really Clausen? I mean, it looks like him, but damn.

Mr Crimson Reign aka (I sit my ass in front of a computer 24/7) you need to get a hobby. You probably got sores on your ass from sitting in front of the computer so much. Do you bath? Do you eat? Do you spend time with your family? What do you do besides surf the net from dawn to dusk?

quote:

Originally posted by Crimson Reign:
LSU while loaded with future NFL players and a juggernaut of a team managed to:


Lose at home to a (5-6) Tennessee team after building a huge lead...lost to RICK CLAUSEN!!
One of these guys:



Then got obliterated by 20 points in the SEC Championship game.

In 2006 lost to Florida and Auburn, both games that were very winnable.

2007 of course lost to an 8-5 Kentucky team and an 8-5 Arkansas team.



RTR

I don't know CR. If you start playing that game then the skeletons in Saban's closet come running out screaming for recognition. Lester has done a very good job at LSU so far.

The last inheritor that I remeber being decent was some dude named Tom Osbourne. You may not have heard of him, but he replaced the legendary Bob Devaney (101-20 at Nebraska). Nebraska was 33-2-1 under Devaney the 3 years prior to Osborne taking over in 1973. Despite Devaney's suceess Osborne managed to carve out a small nitch for himself in Nebraska folklore by winning 255 games and 3 national championships (played for 3 others and practically gave the '83 title to miami) in 25 years.

Maybe Lester is the next Larry Cocker (let's hope so) or maybe he's the next Tom Osborne (let's hope not), but more likely he's something in between.

Steve Spurrier VS Nick Saban

Both had 2 miserable years in the NFL after creating successful college programs.

Both have come back to coach in the SEC.

Both only won 7 games thier first year back (Saban lost 6 vs Spurrier's 5), ending up in the Independence Bowl.

Both are still great recruiters.

2005 South Carolina 7-5
2006 South Carolina 8-5
2007 South Carolina 6-6

WOW, I guess this means Saban can only hope to ever win 8 games at Bama.

You guys are right......these comparisons are totally legit. Eerie even!

*Note Sarcasm*

CR, I thought you were doing a MXC slant.